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H_JUD_2019A 02/21/2019 01:37:53 PM Committee Summary

PUBLIC
STAFF SUMMARY OF MEETING
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY
Date 02/21/2019
Attendance
Benavidez *
Bockenfeld X
Carver X
Galindo X
Gonzales-Gutierrez X
McKean X
Roberts X
Soper X
Tipper X
Herod X
Weissman X
Time 01:37:53 PM to 11:32:42 PM
Place Old State Library
This Meeting was called to order by Weissman
This Report was prepared by Bo Pogue
Hearing Items Action Taken
HB19-1177 Amended, referred to House Appropriations

HB19-1177 - Amended, referred to House Appropriations

01:38:08 PM  

The meeting was called to order. A quorum was present. Representative Weissman provided some opening remarks about how the meeting would proceed. Representatives Sullivan and Garnett, prime sponsors, presented House Bill 19-1177, concerning creation of an extreme risk protection order.  Committee members received a fact sheet supporting the bill (Attachment A).  The sponsors screened a film.

01:49:23 PM  

The sponsors continued to screen a film. Representative Garnett provided remarks in support of the bill and explained the effect of the bill.

02:02:16 PM  

Representative Sullivan discussed the need for HB 19-1177. Committee members received letters in support of the bill from the Colorado Attorney General (Attachment B) and the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence (Attachment C). The following persons testified regarding HB 19-1177:

Ms. Jane Daugherty, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Daugherty recounted the loss of her sister in a school shooting, and discussed the need to address gun violence through legislation.

Sheriff Tony Spurlock, representing Douglas County, testified in support of the bill. Sheriff Spurlock discussed the need for the legislation, and the stakeholder process in crafting the bill.

Sheriff Joe Pelle, representing Boulder County, testified in support of the bill. Sheriff Pelle discussed the benefits of restricting firearms for those who are experiencing an acute mental health crisis. Discussion ensued regarding the process by which an extreme risk protection order is obtained under HB 19-1177, and due process requirements under the bill. Discussion followed regarding acquisition of a search warrant to effectuate an extreme risk protection order under the bill.

02:33:45 PM  

Ms. Kaylee Tyner, representing Team Enough, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Tyner discussed the dangers of gun violence for those who are experiencing mental health issues, and spoke in support of strengthening gun violence laws.

Ms. Elina Asensio, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. She recounted the loss of her friend to gun violence.

Mr. John Walsh, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Walsh discussed his experiences with gun violence as Colorado's U.S. Attorney, and explained how the bill would help to prevent gun violence. He discussed laws similar to HB 19-1177 in other states, and the constitutionality of the bill. Mr. Walsh responded to questions regarding the scope of the bill, and the standard for obtaining an extreme risk protection order under the bill. Discussion ensued regarding due process issues associated with the bill. Ms. Tyner responded to questions regarding ways to keep firearms away from young people.

03:01:02 PM  

Ms. Lauren Snyder, representing Mental Health Colorado, testified in support of HB 19-1177. She cited data concerning gun violence in Colorado, with a focus on suicide, and explained how the bill would help to mitigate this issue.

Ms. Melissa Petrone Zavaras, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Zavaras recounted the loss of her brother to suicide, and explained how the bill would have helped the situation.

Mr. Ron Sloan, representing the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Sloan discussed the ability to address imminent and emerging violence through the bill. Mr. Sloan responded to questions regarding the potential for abusing the bill, and the initiation of mental health holds by law enforcement. Discussion ensued regarding protections against abuse in the bill.

03:29:49 PM  

Mr. John Anderson, representing himself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Mr. Anderson discussed the abrogation of due process by the bill, and explained how a firearms seizure would be conducted under the bill.

Sheriff Steve Reams, representing Weld County and a number of other counties, testified in opposition to the bill. Sheriff Reams read a statement of opposition.

Mr. Dudley Brown, representing Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Brown noted public sentiment on the bill, and explained how the bill would be ineffective. Discussion ensued regarding the constitutionality of HB 19-1177, and the difference between executing a mental health hold and an extreme risk protection order. Sheriff Reams responded to questions regarding the ability of law enforcement to seize weapons. Mr. Brown responded to questions regarding the ability to determine mental illness. Discussion returned to the efficacy of "red flag" legislation in reducing firearms violence, and due process issues. Discussion followed regarding the contents of a court petition for an extreme risk protection order. Sheriff Reams responded to questions regarding how his office would address a hypothetical scenario.

04:04:29 PM  

Ms. Brita Horn, representing herself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Ms. Horn discussed the lack of a requirement for a mental health evaluation by the bill before firearms are seized, and recounted her experiences as a first responder. She suggested some amendments to the bill.

Ms. Brenda Stokes, representing herself, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. Stokes recounted the experience of defending her home from robbery, and explained how she might not have been able to bear a firearm had the bill been in effect. She discussed ex parte court orders, and cited an author.

Mr. Scott Jones, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Jones discussed the inefficacy of the bill, and explained how the bill might be abused. He noted some ambiguous language in the bill, and discussed mental health issues in Colorado.

04:19:16 PM  

Mr. Mario Acevedo, representing himself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Committee members received a packet of information (Attachment B). Mr. Acevedo discussed suicide and police brutality.

Mr. Justin Green, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Green discussed dangers associated with firearms seizures, and the lack of due process under the bill. He highlighted certain sections in the bill.

Mr. George Brauchler, representing the Eighteenth Judicial District, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Brauchler discussed certain firearms-related crimes perpetrated in his district, and noted differences between HB 19-1177 and a previous red flag bill. He suggested some changes to the bill. Mr. Brauchler responded to questions regarding the burden of proof under the bill. Discussion ensued on this point. He discussed judicial discretion in the bill and concerns about it. Representative Carver brought up concerns about third party notices.  Discussion ensued on this point.  Mr. Brauchler responded to questions regarding a scenario where a judge issues an extreme risk protection order, and the potential for sunsetting the bill. Discussion followed regarding how the bill will spur proactivity on the part of law enforcement. Discussion returned to protections against abuse in the bill. Mr. Brauchler responded to questions about the standard for weapons seizure under the bill, and other avenues for addressing firearms in the hands of those undergoing mental health episodes.

05:10:38 PM  

Mr. Bruce Brown, representing the Fifth Judicial District, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Mr. Brown addressed concerns raised during earlier testimony, and recounted a situation in his district for which the bill would have applied.

Mr. Mike Heyka, representing Colorado Gun Owners for Safety, testified in support of the bill. He discussed the importance of responsible firearms ownership, and laws similar to the bill in other states. Mr. Heyka discussed gun violence in the United States.

Ms. Mary Parker, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Parker discussed the removal of children from homes in certain circumstances, and rebutted certain arguments against the bill. Discussion ensued regarding the circumstances under which firearms may be removed from an individual, and language in the bill concerning identification of firearms in a petition for an extreme risk protection order. Mr. Brown responded to questions regarding prosecution of those who abuse the provisions of the bill, and jurisprudence surrounding probable cause.

05:45:25 PM  

Ms. Judy Amabile, representing herself, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Amabile discussed her son's mental health issues, and her efforts to ensure that he did not obtain firearms.

Ms. Juliana Nelson, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Nelson recounted the loss of a family member due to gun violence.

Dr. David Iverson, representing Colorado Cease Fire, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Iverson discussed suicide by firearms, and the effect of red flag laws in other states. Dr. Iverson and Ms. Amabile responded to questions regarding the use of mental health holds. Ms. Amabile responded to questions regarding the potential reaction of those who have their firearms removed under the bill. Discussion ensued regarding the time frames and other issues associated with mental health holds. Discussion returned to improvement of mental health issues as a result of the bill.

06:12:24 PM  

Ms. Maren Strother, representing herself, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Strother recounted some episodes of gun violence.

Ms. Jean Fredlund, representing the League of Women Voters, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Fredlund recounted her husband's violent behavior, and her efforts to remove firearms from the house.

Ms. Alana Smart, representing Colorado Faith Communities United to End Gun Violence, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Smart discussed the use of firearms for suicide, and the benefits of the bill. Discussion ensued regarding the presence of firearms in domestic violence situations, and with those experiencing Alzheimer's disease.

06:28:42 PM  

Ms. Judith Darcy, representing the Libertarian Party of El Paso County, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Ms. Darcy questioned the efficacy of the bill, and discussed potential abuses of the bill's provisions. She discussed the loss of rights under the bill.

Mr. Andrew Lucas, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Lucas registered a number of concerns with the bill.

Mr. Gabriel D'Silva, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. D'Silva discussed the loss of due process under the bill, and the further abrogation of rights. Discussion ensued regarding racial bias in policing, and the potential for false reporting under the bill.

06:45:20 PM  

Mr. David Kopel, representing himself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Mr. Kopel explained that he supports red flag laws but objected to the present bill on several grounds. He discussed red flag laws in other states as compared to HB 19-1177.

Mr. Justin Hayward, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Hayward discussed his experience with police searches in Russia, and the abrogation of rights by the bill.

Mr. Nat Green, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Green discussed the effect of the bill on self protection, and mental health issues. Mr. Kopel responded to questions regarding the victimization of individuals by ex parte hearings. Discussion ensued on this point, and on the conduct of confiscations under the bill.

07:05:54 PM  

Mr. Duane Thompson, representing himself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Mr. Thompson made some amendment suggestions.

Ms. Maryann Perez, representing herself, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. Perez discussed potential costs associated with the bill, and encroachments on rights by the bill.

Mr. David Klemme, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Klemme discussed the preponderance of the evidence standard in the bill, and the potential for those experiencing an episode to use means other than firearms to perpetrate violence. Discussion ensued regarding the bill's preponderance of the evidence standard.

07:19:02 PM  

Ms. Kelly Murphy, representing herself, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Murphy recounted her brother's involvement in a shooting incident.

Ms. Julie Meyers, representing Colorado Faith Communities United to End Gun Violence, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Meyers discussed red flag bills in other states, and the case profiled in the film screened earlier. She discussed the merits of the legislation. Ms. Karin Asensio, representing Moms Demand Action, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Asensio recounted the loss of her child's friend due to gun violence, and discussed the merits of the legislation.

07:39:04 PM  

Ms. Lydia Waligorski, representing Violence-Free Colorado, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Waligorski discussed the relationship between domestic violence and firearms, and the mechanism by which an extreme risk protection order is issued under the bill.

Mr. Dustin Zwiebel, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Zwiebel explained how a red flag law might have prevented past shootings, and difficulties experienced in addressing mental illness.

Mr. Tom Mauser, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Mauser recounted an episode where firearms were seized from someone experiencing a mental health episode in a state with red flag laws, and addressed claims made during previous testimony.

07:52:49 PM  

Ms. Dawn Reinfeld, representing herself, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Reinfeld discussed violence involving firearms, and the merits of the legislation.

Dr. JoAnn Fujioka, representing Colorado PTA, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Fujioka discussed red flag laws in other states, and explained how the bill will save lives.

Mr. Chris Hinds, representing himself, testified in support of the bill.

08:01:32 PM  

Mr. Ronald Dietz, representing himself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Mr. Dietz discussed the loss of his son to suicide, and explained that firearms do not cause suicide.

Ms. Marcy Freeburg, representing herself, testified in opposition to the bill. She read a statement authored by her son, and cited a recent U.S. Supreme Court opinion. Ms. Freeburg discussed the abrogation of rights by the bill.

Mr. Michael Stapleton, representing the Libertarian Party of Colorado, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Stapleton discussed mental health, the protection of citizens, and the use of red flag laws in other states. He suggested some amendments to the bill. Representative Garnett spoke to some of Mr. Stapleton's concerns. Discussion ensued regarding reporting requirements in the bill.

08:18:05 PM  

Ms. Haley Marcantonio, representing herself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Ms. Marcantonio discussed causes of suicide other than the use of firearms, and explained that firearms owners will be reticent to seek mental health treatment if the bill passes.

Mr. Taylor Ellis, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Ellis discussed a hypothetical situation where the bill's provisions could be abused.

Ms. Alexandra Garza, representing the NRA, testified in opposition to the bill. Ms. Garza cited statistics from a state that has adopted red flag legislation, raised certain due process issues, and discussed some potential unintended consequences of the bill. Ms. Garza addressed the issue of ex parte orders under the bill, and discussed the parties that could initiate an extreme risk protection order petition under the bill. Discussion ensued on the last point. Discussion followed regarding the scope of red flag laws in other states, and the constitutionality of the HB 19-1177. Discussion returned to the parties that may launch an extreme risk protection order petition. Ms. Garza responded to questions regarding how the bill could be amended to satisfy her organization.

08:38:12 PM  

Mr. Robert Edmiston, representing the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Committee members received a fact sheet opposing the bill (Attachment C).

Mr. Lance Touve, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Touve discussed rights abrogated by the bill.

Mr. Jafer Partowmah, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. Partowmah read a statement in opposition. Discussion ensued regarding some forthcoming amendments.

08:50:52 PM  

Reverend Wayne A. Laws, representing CFCU, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Reverend Laws discussed suicide by firearms, explained how the bill would save lives, and cited support for red flag laws.

Dr. J.T. Boyd, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Boyd discussed an incident that put him in danger of firearms violence, and another incident where he survived a mass shooting.

Ms. Kristin Hirsch, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Hirsch discussed some episodes of firearms violence, and rebutted assertions raised during previous testimony. Ms. Hirsch responded to questions about potentially being a subject of an extreme risk protection order as a firearms owner.

09:04:39 PM  

Mr. Michael McGuire, representing himself, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Mr. McGuire discussed gun violence in the United States, and explained how certain laws may reduce gun violence. He cited support for read flag laws.

Ms. Sharon Halbrook red the testimony of Dr. Stuart Ferguson in support of the bill.

Mr. Norm Davey, representing the House District 37 Democratic Party, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Davey cited scripture.

09:15:56 PM  

Ms. Jean Trestor, representing herself, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Ms. Trestor made some suggestions on how to address certain issues invoked by the bill, and supported early intervention.

Dr. Karen Tonso, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Dr. Tonso discussed mass shootings.

Ms. Eileen McCarron, representing Colorado Ceasefire, testified in support of the bill. Ms. McCarron recounted an incident of firearms violence involving a person known to be a danger, and discussed red flag laws in other states. Ms.McCarron discussed past efforts to pass firearms-related legislation, and cited support for red flag laws.

09:31:44 PM  

Ms. Lesley Hollywood, representing herself, testified in opposition to HB 19-1177. Ms. Hollywood recounted her experience of being served with a temporary protection order, prompted by her husband, and explained the ease with which an extreme risk protection order can be attained.

Mr. Jonathan D'Silva, representing himself, testified in opposition to the bill. Mr. D'Silva discussed the burden of proof under the bill, and spoke of preserving rights.

09:42:07 PM  

Ms. Kathy Kilmer, representing herself, testified in support of HB 19-1177.

Ms. Jean Grattet, read the testimony of Ms. Ari Davis in support of the bill. Committee members received copies of Ms. Davis' testimony (Attachment D).

Ms. Holly Murtaugh, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Murtaugh explained how the bill strengthens the Second Amendment.

09:49:39 PM  

Mr. Jeff Zayach, representing Boulder County Public Health, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Mr. Zayach discussed suicide through the use of firearms, and cited support for the bill.

Mr. Joe Flynn, representing himself, testified in support of the bill. Mr. Flynn recounted an episode of firearms violence, and discussed the provisions of the bill. Ms. Eleanor Cabell, representing herself, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Cabell discussed the Fourteenth Amendment, and explained that due process rights are not unlimited.

09:59:27 PM  

Mr. David Rodriguez, representing the Colorado Nurses Association, testified in support of HB 19-1177. Mr. Rodriguez discussed the need for the bill, and recounted an instance of depression when he tried to surrender a firearm. He explained that the bill may save lives.

Ms. Connie Grieshaber, representing Moms Demand Action, testified in support of the bill. Ms. Grieshaber discussed suicide through the use of firearms, and recounted some instances of firearms violence that have impacted her.

10:14:33 PM  

Representative Garnett explained the effect of amendment L.001 (Attachment E). Representative McKean expressed some concerns with the amendment. Discussion ensued regarding these concerns.



10:19:18 PM
Motion Adopt amendment L.001
Moved Herod
Seconded Gonzales-Gutierrez
Benavidez
Bockenfeld
Carver
Galindo
Gonzales-Gutierrez
McKean
Roberts
Soper
Tipper
Herod
Weissman
YES: 0   NO: 0   EXC: 0   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  Pass Without Objection
10:19:36 PM  

Representative Garnett explained the effect of amendment L.002 (Attachment F). Representative Garnett responded to a question about language in the amendment invoking a court of competent jurisdiction. Discussion ensued regarding the narrowing of scope by the amendment.



10:23:02 PM
Motion Adopt amendment L.002
Moved Herod
Seconded Galindo
Benavidez
Bockenfeld
Carver
Galindo
Gonzales-Gutierrez
McKean
Roberts
Soper
Tipper
Herod
Weissman
YES: 0   NO: 0   EXC: 0   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  Pass Without Objection
10:24:00 PM  

Representative Garnett explained the effect of amendment L.005 (Attachment G). Discussion ensued regarding the proper terms associated with concealed carry permits, and the return of firearms after an extreme risk protection order has been rescinded or expires.



10:32:20 PM
Motion Adopt amendment L.005.
Moved Herod
Seconded Galindo
Benavidez
Bockenfeld
Carver
Galindo
Gonzales-Gutierrez
McKean
Roberts
Soper
Tipper
Herod
Weissman
YES: 0   NO: 0   EXC: 0   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  Pass Without Objection
10:44:14 PM  

Representative Garnett explained the effect of amendment L.006 (Attachment H). Discussion ensued regarding the potential reduction of value of firearms when they are seized under the bill.



10:44:14 PM
Motion Adopt amendment L.006 severed section B, page 1, lines 1 through 3, and lines 6 through 17.
Moved Herod
Seconded Galindo
Benavidez
Bockenfeld
Carver
Galindo
Gonzales-Gutierrez
McKean
Roberts
Soper
Tipper
Herod
Weissman
YES: 0   NO: 0   EXC: 0   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  Pass Without Objection
10:44:43 PM  

Representatives Sullivan and Garnett provided closing remarks in support of HB 19-1177. Various committee members provided their positions on the bill.



11:32:22 PM
Motion Refer House Bill 19-1177, as amended, to the Committee on Appropriations.
Moved Galindo
Seconded Herod
Benavidez Yes
Bockenfeld No
Carver No
Galindo Yes
Gonzales-Gutierrez Yes
McKean No
Roberts Yes
Soper No
Tipper Yes
Herod Yes
Weissman Yes
Final YES: 7   NO: 4   EXC: 0   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  PASS


11:32:42 PM   The committee adjourned.