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J_LS_2023A 06/29/2023 09:14:27 AM Committee Summary

PUBLIC
STAFF SUMMARY OF MEETING
JOINT COMMITTEE COMMITTEE ON LEGAL SERVICES
Date 06/29/2023
Attendance
Dickson E
Gardner X
Mabrey X
Moreno X
Roberts X
Van Winkle X
Weissman X
Wilson X
Soper X
Gonzales X
Time 09:14:27 AM to 12:45:36 PM
Place SCR 357
This Meeting was called to order by Gonzales
This Report was prepared by Courtney Dunaway
Hearing Items Action Taken
Review of Social Media Guidelines in light of HB23-1306 Committee Discussion Only
Update on pending litigation Committee Discussion Only
Selection and appointment of Director of the OLLS Committee Discussion Only
Presentation concerning legislative agency director appointment processes in other states Committee Discussion Only
Committee discussion concerning search process for Director of the OLLS Committee Discussion Only
Next Meeting Dates for OLLS Director Search Committee Discussion Only
Other business Committee Discussion Only

Review of Social Media Guidelines in light of HB23-1306 - Committee Discussion Only
09:15:41 AM  
Ed DeCecco, Office
of Legislative Legal Services (OLLS), gave an update on the social media
guidelines and summarized the committee's previous discussion on the topic.
09:17:50 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
explained the reasoning behind why the guidelines may need to be changed
because of the passage of HB23-1306.
09:18:00 AM  
Ed DeCecco summarized
what the previous recommended social media guidelines were.
09:18:57 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
explained that HB23-1306 changed the law in a way that possibly creates
the need for new guidelines.
09:22:25 AM  
Ed DeCecco clarified
that the new state law may not necessarily be the direction the supreme
court goes.
09:23:50 AM  
Representative Weissman
commented on HB23-1306 and stated his belief that state law will not have
weight against federal law in the courts on the issue and expressed his
view that the committee be extremely careful with new guidelines to err
on the side of caution.
09:26:39 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
responded by saying he is not aware of any state law the court has used
in the determinations on the issue and agreed that a state law would not
be controlling over federal law.
09:27:41 AM  
Representative Soper
commented on how no one will know what the guidelines should actually be
until the court makes its decision.
09:28:47 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
explained the different outcomes that could happen and the timeline they
could happen in.
09:31:34 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
asked what the committee would like to do with the guidelines, summarized
the letter the committee previously sent out, and asked if the committee
would like to rescind the previous guidance in light of HB23-1306, replace
the guidance with similar guidance in light of HB23-1306, or provide completely
new guidance and recommend caution.
09:35:35 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
mentioned what the new law could mean for the section of the guidelines
on retaining counsel.
09:38:13 AM  
Representative Weissman
commented on how he believes the committee should address the guidelines
on retaining counsel and emphasized that the guidelines should make clear
that, regardless of state law, there is still legal risk.
09:41:20 AM  
Senator Gardner discussed
the legal risk of private social media and that until the supreme court
makes their decision, legislators need to be extra careful and recommended
that the committee suggest for legislators to receive guidance from an
attorney before blocking someone on social media.
09:44:50 AM  
Representative Soper
brought up the supreme court's decision in an online stalking case and
how that might affect the guidelines to make sure legislators have the
most tools possible for a defense against threats on social media.
09:47:12 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
explained that the social media guidelines purposely don't touch on the
first amendment because it's not a legislator's job to determine whether
something is protected speech in their limited duties in running their
social media accounts.
09:52:07 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked the committee to decide how they want to move forward with
the guidelines.
09:52:57 AM  
Represenative Soper,
vice chair, suggested the committee send an updated notice or letter that
explains that the general assembly has adopted a change in law but that
the legislators should exercise an abundance of caution while the supreme
court decides related cases.
09:53:53 AM  
Representative Weissman
added that the committee should withdraw the memo as official guidance
since it has been somewhat superseded and asked the chair and vice chair
to take the lead on drafting the new letter and then allowing the committee
to review it after.
09:55:46 AM  
Senator Gardner added
that the committee should make express notices in the guidelines to state
that there is still legal risk if followed.
09:58:24 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, added that the cover letter should note that the guidance is time-limited
in nature and will be subject to change in the future as the committee
will provide new guidance after the supreme court's decisions.
09:59:58 AM  
Represenative Weissman
agreed with Senators Gardner and Gonzales.
10:00:57 AM  
Ed DeCecco, OLLS,
addressed all of the final points that the committee brought up.


10:02:52 AM
 Motion I move that the chair and vice chair work with the OLLS to draft a letter that will be circulated to the members of the general assembly and update the memorandum to include within the summary of guidelines that there is legal risk in following the guidelines.
Moved Soper
Seconded
Dickson Excused
Gardner Yes
Mabrey Yes
Moreno Yes
Roberts Yes
Van Winkle Yes
Weissman Yes
Wilson Yes
Soper Yes
Gonzales Yes
YES: 9   NO: 0   EXC: 1   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  PASS



Update on pending litigation - Committee Discussion Only
10:05:33 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
reviewed the pending litigation, summarized what has happened in the case,
and gave an update that the plaintiffs have filed a notice of appeal. He
also discussed whether it would be worth filing a motion for attorney fees
and costs and explained that since the plaintiffs do not have resources
to cover the costs it is likely not worthwhile to file the motion.
10:07:52 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked if the outside counsel is keeping track of their billable
hours on their portion of the case and, if so, she would like the see the
number.
10:08:18 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
replied that yes, the outside counsel are tracking their hours.
10:08:39 AM  
Senator Gardner commented
on going after the attorney fees and how even if they end up never being
able to collect it may still make a difference in changing behavior in
the future in serving as a deterrent but will cost more money.
10:10:51 AM  
No further discussion.



Selection and appointment of Director of the OLLS - Committee Discussion Only
10:11:06 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
went over the legal requirements for selecting a new Director of the OLLS
and explained how the committee has gone about the process the last three
times they have had to select a new director in the past.
10:13:08 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
explained that the committee may make changes to the updated job description
if they wish to and asked if the committee has questions.
10:14:18 AM  
No questions from
the committee.
10:14:28 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
went, step-by-step, through how past searches have gone, what the applicant
pools looked like, where the job description was advertised, and what the
timelines were for past searches.
10:20:09 AM  
Senator Gardner asked
if during the last search the committee interviewed an out-of-state applicant
remotely and if that can be done again this time.
10:21:27 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked what the committee is meant to decide today.
10:22:07 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
stated the committee should decide on the logistics of the scope of the
advertisement, where they want to place the advertisement, and how and
when they want to choose and interview candidates.



Presentation concerning legislative agency director appointment processes in other states - Committee Discussion Only
10:22:40 AM  
Natalie Wood, National
Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), gave an overview of NCSL and what
her presentation will include, which she stated will be that strong staff
and strong management make for strong legislatures, there is no one correct
way to hire a director, and hires tend to be a reflection of the culture
of what a legislature values.
10:26:49 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
explained that NCSL has been doing a lot of work on retention and turnover
and have discovered that managers play the most key role in retaining staff.
10:27:57 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
went into detail about what other states have done to select new directors
and how other states have set up their hiring processes.
10:30:55 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
explained that in other states where a committee selected a candidate,
they often used a subcommittee to review resumes and bring the top ones
before the whole committee. She also explained that having a set timeline
and set interview questions ready to go helps the process.
10:32:37 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
mentioned how important it is to have a solid job description and discuss
key features to look for in candidates such as prioritizing legislative
experience.
10:33:50 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
explained that all the legislatures she talked to did both an internal
and national search for candidates.
10:35:48 AM  
No questions from
the committee.
10:35:57 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
explained the pros and cons of hiring internally versus externally and
that most legislatures hire externally when they are looking for a cultural
shift in the office and the legislative institution is ready to accommodate
that sort of cultural shift.
10:37:00 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
brought up that a new major concern for candidates in today's world is
work-life balance and time-off flexibility and capabilities to work from
home.
10:38:15 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
mentioned that it's important to listen to and consult with your HR director
during the process and also brought up possibly thinking about having a
probation period or check-in with the candidate a bit after hiring.
10:39:24 AM  
Senator Gardner asked
about her thoughts on having legislators outside of the committee as part
of the interviews.
10:40:14 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
explained that they should first evaluate the strengths of the committee
members and that it is an asset that the committee has members with legal
experience.
10:41:36 AM  
Senator Moreno asked
if she knows of any experiences where there weren't many applicants that
applied and what should be done if that happens.
10:42:00 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
explained that candidate pools have been smaller in the last few years
but that the legislatures have been satisfied with the quality of candidates
and that it's important to have a hiring timeline where you won't lose
applicants to other offers.
10:43:17 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked if the other legislatures had processes for deciding
how many candidates they wanted to interview before moving to next steps.
10:43:58 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
stated that the other legislatures did not and instead just based their
processes on how many candidates ended up applying.
10:45:28 AM  
Representative Weissman
commented on Mrs. Wood's point that legislatures tended to hire internally
and emphasized the value of having external candidates as comparisons to
internal candidates.
10:46:35 AM  
Natalie Wood, NCSL,
answered that the interview process can help people think about long-term
goals for the institution and that external candidates can bring valuable
ideas for future visions for the organization as a fresh perspective while
new internal candidates can hit the ground running as they know exactly
how things operate already.
10:51:51 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, thanked Mrs. Wood for her presentation.



Committee discussion concerning search process for Director of the OLLS - Committee Discussion Only
10:52:43 AM  
Senator Gardner commented
on the topic of narrowing the advertisement to only people licensed in
Colorado with legislative experience.
10:53:09 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked if the timeline to have a new director by September 1st
is doable.
10:53:46 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
explained that, yes, he thinks it is still doable as long as the committee
has time in their schedules and added that the executive committee is scheduled
to have a meeting on August 31st where they could appoint the candidate.
10:54:44 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked if the process for hiring a new is Joint Budget Committee
(JBC) director is concurrently underway.
10:55:42 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
explained that the JBC has made recommendations to the executive committee
and they are appointing a candidate on July 13th.
10:56:03 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked the committee to discuss any changes to the job description
and hiring timeline they have.
10:57:29 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked how soon they need to have a candidate to recommend so
the executive committee has time to interview the candidate(s) too.
11:01:17 AM  
Senator Gonzales
asked if Senator Moreno has any recommendations on timeline.
11:01:50 AM  
Senator Moreno stated
that the executive committee had two weeks for the JBC candidates.
11:02:42 AM  
Representative Weissman
commented on the timeline.
11:03:54 AM  
Senator Gardner commented
on how the committee should narrow down the candidates they decide to interview.
11:07:04 AM  
Representative Weissman
stated that he thinks the committee is small enough size to all review
resumes and interview together and discussed his idea on how the process
should go through the use of a matrix to narrow down candidates.
11:10:04 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, agreed on Representative Weissman's ideas of how the process
should happen and added that interviews and recommendations to the executive
committee should all happen on one single day.
11:13:13 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, supported the entire committee being involved in reviewing resumes
and asked if tomorrow is doable to put out the job description or if that
would be too soon.
11:15:37 AM  
Senator Gardner asked
if deciding who to interview by a matrix rather than in executive session
is okay open-meetings-wise.
11:17:10 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
explained that the matrix works but that in the past the committee has
always discussed who they want to interview in executive session and recommended
the committee do so too after using the matrix.
11:18:32 AM  
Senator Moreno commented
that determining the scope of the applicant pool will organically help
the committee decide on timeline.
11:19:05 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked the committee who they want to open up the application to,
aside from just internally.
11:20:33 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, explained that he doesn't believe the committee needs a recruiter
but can open up the pool nationally through the American Bar Association,
NCSL, and LinkedIn.
11:21:47 AM  
Representative Weissman
agreed that there should be a meeting after using the matrix to choose
candidates to interview and gave thoughts on where the job advertisement
should be posted.
11:24:42 AM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, explained what the scope can be and what the scope has been in the
past. Then she asked about direction on what the matrix would look like
so they can get started on it and asked the committee to define their scope
clearly first.
11:28:04 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, commented the he believes the committee should have the scope
open nationwide but should focus most effort on posting the job within
the state.
11:30:09 AM  
Representative Wilson
discussed limiting the job postings for now and then widening the net if
not enough applicants come in.
11:30:45 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, discussed adding to the job requirements that the candidate be an
attorney-at-law barred in Colorado, which would limit the national candidate
pool.
11:34:18 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, agreed the applicants should be licensed in Colorado and there
should be a strong preference given to someone with experience with the
Colorado legislative process.
11:35:19 AM  
Senator Moreno supported
the direction the committee is headed and agreed that the requirement to
be barred in Colorado will act as a good filter to limit candidates.
11:36:26 AM  
Representative Weissman
agreed it should be limited to those licensed in Colorado and that having
legislative experience in Colorado also makes sense.
11:38:19 AM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, explained the downside of limiting the scope to being licensed in
Colorado and that stating it as a strong preference rather than a requirement
might be good.
11:39:38 AM  
Senator Gardner commented
on insights from a previous hiring process for Legislative Council Staff
(LCS).
11:42:04 AM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, brought up the point that the committee may not want to conduct a
nationwide search if they are satisfied with how the OLLS currently operates.
11:43:25 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, expressed that she personally would like candidates who understand
the particulars of the Colorado legislature since the job is so niche.
11:46:04 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked the committee to decide on the final scope.


11:47:02 AM
 Motion I move that the committee set the scope of the director search as being nationwide and advertise through NCSL, CSG, and the American Bar Association but that the focus of the search be in the state of Colorado advertised through the General Assembly's website, in our sister-branches of government, the Colorado Bar Association, and the other associations listed in the 2017 director search including the Asian and Pacific Bar Association, the Colorado Hispanic Bar Association, and the Women's Bar Association, that the job description and job advertisement include a strong preference for a Colorado licensed attorney with Colorado legislative experience, and that the postings be online rather than in print.
Moved Soper
Seconded
Dickson Excused
Gardner Yes
Mabrey Yes
Moreno Yes
Roberts Yes
Van Winkle Yes
Weissman Yes
Wilson Yes
Soper Yes
Gonzales Yes
YES: 9   NO: 0   EXC: 1   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  PASS
11:49:20 AM  
Committee discussed
the motion and revisions to the motion.
11:53:24 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, moved on to discussing process and timeline.
11:54:05 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked Senator Moreno if there is wiggle room to cut into the
two weeks given to the executive committee for interviews.
11:54:30 AM  
Senator Moreno explained
that there is likely flexibility.
11:55:12 AM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked if the committee were to extend the deadline for applications
to the 21st of July if that would work for the timeline.
11:56:02 AM  
Senator Gardner clarified
that there will need to be two meetings after the application deadline
and asked when those will happen.
11:56:54 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked how long it will take to get the package of resumes of
applicants.
11:57:58 AM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
stated that the office will add resumes to the box account as they come
in and added that the office will be able to get the job advertisement
out by July 7th.
11:59:30 AM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, asked if the committee believes two weeks of having the application
period open is adequate for the posting for a position as large as this.
12:01:13 PM  
Representative Wilson
commented that he agrees that the committee should review resumes and add
them to the matrix as soon as they come in to stay on top of things.
12:01:58 PM  
Representative Weissman
agreed that the committee should have one meeting to choose who to interview
and a second meeting to do all the interviews and choose their candidate(s)
to recommend and that the job application deadline should be pushed out
a week.
12:04:47 PM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, agreed with pushing out the application deadline by a week.
12:05:50 PM  
Senator Moreno agreed
with the timeline being discussed and asked staff if the timeline is logistically
workable.
12:06:15 PM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
stated he believes the timeline is doable and that the office can make
candidates anonymous if they would like.


12:07:30 PM
 Motion I move that the timeline for the hiring process be as follows: the job advertisement will be posted the week of July 4th, the application window will close July 28th at 11:59 p.m. MDT, the committee will meet August 9th at 2:00 p.m. to discuss who to interview, and the committee will meet on August 22nd at 9:00 a.m. to interview their chosen candidates and make recommendations to the executive committee.
Moved Soper
Seconded
Dickson Excused
Gardner Yes
Mabrey Yes
Moreno Yes
Roberts Yes
Van Winkle Yes
Weissman Yes
Wilson Yes
Soper Yes
Gonzales Yes
YES: 9   NO: 0   EXC: 1   ABS:  0   FINAL ACTION:  PASS
12:08:36 PM  
Committee discussed
the motion and revisions to the motion.
12:13:49 PM  
The committee recessed.
12:20:10 PM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, circled back to discussing the job description.
12:20:34 PM  
Senator Moreno discussed
adding, to the job description, being able to interpret legislative rules
and the role of presenting the office's budget to the executive committee.
12:21:28 PM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
pointed out that there is currently no salary range for the position and
that they're required to have one by state law.
12:22:09 PM  
Representative Weissman
summarized the state law regarding posting salaries on job advertisements
and stated the he believes a broad range satisfies the requirement.
12:24:12 PM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, explained that the office has salary ranges they can use as a guide.
12:30:51 PM  
Senator Moreno stated
it might be helpful to have LCS advise on what they did for their job posting
salary range.
12:32:30 PM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked if there is any further discussion.
12:32:41 PM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
asked if the committee would like anonymization of resumes.
12:32:55 PM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, asked if the resumes are anonymized, when they'll receive the candidates'
names before the interviews.
12:33:19 PM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
stated that the names will be revealed for the interviews to the members
but not to the public until the recommendations to the executive committee
are made.
12:34:20 PM  
Senator Moreno supported
the anonymization.
12:35:03 PM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, explained that the anonymization is just to remove unconscious bias
rather than redact all personal information.
12:35:56 PM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, commented on the anonymization and what would be redacted.
12:38:02 PM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, explained that not all personal information in a cover letter is
redacted.
12:38:50 PM  
Jerry Barry, OLLS,
added that the redactions would include year of graduation or anything
that indicates age.
12:39:05 PM  
Senator Gonzales,
chair, clarified that at the August 9th meeting they also need to notify
candidates who they aren't going to interview that the process is over
for them and thank them for applying.
12:40:34 PM  
Representative Weissman
asked if the office will draft a rubric for narrowing down candidates.
12:40:52 PM  
Jennifer Gilroy,
OLLS, stated that yes, the office can make them a rubric.
12:41:32 PM  
Representative Weissman
asked that the rubric be circulated in advance so they can review it and
asked that there be a rubric for interviews too.
12:43:09 PM  
Representative Soper,
vice chair, agreed on the rubric.



Next Meeting Dates for OLLS Director Search - Committee Discussion Only
12:45:05 PM  
No discussion.



Other business - Committee Discussion Only
12:45:11 PM  
No other business.


12:45:36 PM   The committee adjourned.






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